Sunday, November 13, 2005

Divine Intervention

It's high time there's another post.

A major turning point for my atheism was when I started to think about a concept I'll call "divine intervention." For our purposes, divine intervention is the possibility that God intervenes in human life. This can be in either a micro-managing parent view or just as a salesperson/encouraging guide type.

I personally, refuse to accept the fact that there is any sort of intervention from any supernatural being. To me, this intervention would cause a contortion of free will.

In Biblical times, God played a pretty active role. Like after Cain's fratricide, God comes down and asks Cain about the whereabouts of his brother. Now to me, God allowed Cain the opportunity to own up to what he had done, but by coming down to Cain while he was in a crazed state warped Cain's sense of choice. Given the opportunity to think clearly, Cain may have been able to properly atest to his crime.

So if you're the type of theist who believes that by praying to God, God takes an active role in your life and the lives of every human being, answer this: When God solves your problem, or grants you wish, is God somehow denying the right of free will to another person? If you think about it, if every religion considers themselves the "chosen people," we're all on an equal plane. Since the pure contradiction of having all religiously affiliated peoples be "chosen" is obvious. If we're all equal, than how can God play a neutral role in the lives of people. People hate, kill and hurt each other, that's what they do. So at some point, God takes sides.

I would love to start a dialogue on this.


At 11/13/2005 10:40 PM, Blogger Lucy said...

I'm not sure what you mean about denying the right of free will to another person. I pray a lot and I've seen many prayers answered, but I'm still not exactly sure what you're talking about. Give me a couple of examples.

As far as every religion being "chosen people" and every person following a religion being on an even playing field, you've got to remember that there are a lot of religions and each one of them contradicts the other one. It's not possible for all of them to be the truth. Either they're all wrong or only one is true. I believe with all my heart that Christianity is true.

At 11/14/2005 9:19 AM, Blogger Sonni AKA Deby said...

Because, Lucy, answering your prayer might not be what someone else is praying for. Simple example - you and your significant other splits up. You pray with all your heart to get back together again, but your partner is praying for something else. Who gets their prayer answered? Who does God want to be happy? On this simplistic basis you have to ask yourself why would God care? He's off taking sides is war, anyway and doesn't have the time.

You can also believe with all your heart that something is true - but that doesn't make it true.

If you pray to something/someone outside yourself to change something in your life, it also allows you to blame something/someone outside your life if it doesn't change. The only thing that works to fix the sorespots in your life is to look inside yourself and understand the things you do to cause these things to happen to you. Only when you do something different will it create a different effect. If you want to know why your life is the way it is, you need only to look at the causes you made in your past. If you want to know what your future will be, look at the causes you make today.

There is no diety - out there - no matter how much you want there to be. You are only - predictably - the product of your conditioning - and have stopped searching for the truth, because you think you have found something that "feels" right.

You say, "Either they are all wrong - or only one is true." Are those really the only options?

At 11/14/2005 2:45 PM, Blogger Lucy said...

Thank God (literally) that prayer isn't as simple as asking God for something and if He's on your side you get it and if He's not you don't. God is never not on a believer's side. To use your example, if I'm praying for God to put me back with my significant other, God is not only going to hear what I'm requesting, but He will also know the intent of my heart when I'm making my request. He knows why I'm asking. If I'm asking because I've got it in my head that I can't live without this person and this person is my sole source of happiness above and beyond God, there is a really good chance that God will feel that the lesson He can teach me by not granting my request is far more valuable to me and in the long run, will be a greater source of lasting happiness and strength. That doesn't mean that He was "not on my side". It means that He knew even more so what was behind the request than I did and chose to "fix" the real problem and not the symptom of it. Was the prayer answered? Yes. Was it answered in the way I expected? No. If I've learned one thing, it's that seldom is prayer answered or a problem solved the way I'm expecting it to be. God sees every angle of a problem, aspects of the problem that I know nothing about. He doesn't teach everyone the same lesson in the same order. One thing that I have noticed, though.........Anytime I get serious about praying for God to change something in a person's life (like I know what needs changing!), He always, without exception, changes something in mine first. Because God is not limited by time and space, He's not "off somewhere" taking sides in a war. As far as not having time, He invented time. He owns it all. He'll never run out.

You're right. Truth is not dependent on whether or not anyone believes. If no one believed, it wouldn't change a thing. It is what it is.

God is never wrong. How can I blame Him for something that doesn't change in my life?

I don't look inside myself for answers anymore. That's how my life got screwed up to begin with. And yes, it was most definitely when I started doing things differently that my life started making sense. The difference is like night and day.

I am no longer a product of my conditioning. That's what I was before I became a Christian. I was not raised in church, nor was I raised by Christian parents. It was my conditioning that said, "Do what 'feels' right." It is God who says do what IS right. I have stopped searching for truth because I have found truth.

Yes, those are the only options. Either they are all wrong or only one is true.

At 11/20/2005 4:11 PM, Blogger El Penguino said...

easy, theyre all wrong

At 11/21/2005 4:41 PM, Blogger Nauticashades said...

KoH rules, but you need another post!

At 11/29/2005 8:46 PM, Blogger smiterbob said...

Seth nd/or Aeger, do we know "Lucy" in person?

At 11/29/2005 8:50 PM, Blogger seth said...



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